Each time is time that is stoner. I came here to ask what they were. Thanks for beating me to the punch. educate me please. Which one is the stoner and why is that? was called by it could it be the m60? ...
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Some random comments on reddit about Foxtrot Platoon, SEAL Team One; Sea Float, Vietnam, 1970. (1024x801)
- Everytime is stoner time.
- I came here to ask what they were. Thanks for beating me to the punch.
- educate me please. Which one is the stoner and why is it called that? is it the m60?
- Eugene Stoner designed the AR15/M16, but when people call a gun a "Stoner," they're normally talking about the [Stoner 63].( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoner_63 )
- Guy with his foot up (bottom left), and two guys standing up with their weapons pointed vertically up (top right) are carrying stoners. The other two weapons are M60s. The most basic difference is that the Stoner 63 series of weapons fires the 5.56 NATO cartridge and the M60 fires the 7.62 NATO cartridge. The interesting thing about the Stoner 63 series or weapons (way more than just the machine gun) is that it was designed to almost be a Lego style system. By having a couple of base components the individual soldier could modify their weapon to be anything from an assault rifle to a tripod mounted machine gun. I believe the SEALs mostly stuck to the belt fed version because it offered pretty massive firepower for an individual and they were usually small teams having to operate against larger forces. Larry Vickers has a great video on YouTube about the Stoner that I highly recommend.
- These guys only know suppressive fire.
- I actually sat in a class one time on the evolution of the U.S. service rifle and the task organization of the platoon. I wish I still had access to some of the slides, but it was interesting how the U.S. infantry platoon in WW2 was very rifle centric, supplemented by only a few automatic weapons. This obviously had changed by Vietnam, where every rifleman who went outside the wire had a fully automatic M-16 with him (obviously this chews through ammo quite quickly), plus the addition of the M-60, which is belt fed. Now of course we have various incarnations of the M16, the M4, the M249, and the newly developed IAR which is essentially a fully automatic M16 - funny how we've come fully circle on that. I'm not sure I really had a point to all of this other than to say you're right, these guys are obviously well equipped to lay down a lot of lead very quickly, and that the doctrine and composition of the rifle platoon has changed continuously since WW2, more so than you might think.
- I would have loved to sit in a class like that. Do you think the transformation of service weapons between WW2 and Vietnam were due to the type of fighting experienced? WW2 was still conventional in that you had a front line and would try to push forward while Vietnam, and now the conflicts in the Middle East, were more unconventional in that everything may or may not be hostile and a good method of fighting was drowning them in bullets then moving and taking down the enemy? Or was it more of the advances in technology?
- I'm gonna say it was likely tech based, going into Vietnam there was little focus on asymmetrical warfare. A big part of the design for the m16 had to do with evolving calibers and the move away from full size rounds to more intermediate (ex the ak series and the sks), looking at round development almost globally the trend was to go smaller post WW2 because WW2 showed that fighting was almost always well within the range of most service weapons and that more small bullets is a better strategy than fewer large heavy bullets.
- The IAR is slowly replacing the SAW not the m16, the m16 is also being slowly replaced by the m4
- I wouldn't call the M4 replacing the M16 slow.
- The Marines are currently experimenting with replacing M4s and M16s with IARS
- IAR which is essentially a fully automatic M16 Wat
- He's not wrong. It's an accurized AR-15 based rifle with an HK designed piston and a heavier barrel. It's very close to an M16 in terms of its design. Granted, its used in different role within the squad, but that's evidence that HK can build a good gun and the M16 is a versatile design.
- Biggest improvement was the the new short stroke piston system.
- I'm inclined to disagree. I'm not aware of any meaningful effect the piston has on the rifle's accuracy or ability to keep up sustained fire. The bigger upgrades in my opinion are the free-floated barrel's accuracy, and the ability to sustain longer periods of fire with the heavier profile barrel. Granted, I've never used the M27, so it could very well be that the piston does contribute to its sustained fire ability versus the M16's DI.
- To my understanding the piston system improves reliability and sustained fire capability. Read more comments